Topics: Crackdown on organised crime on the waterfront
JASON CLARE: Good morning and thanks for coming along. I’m joined today by the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police, Tony Negus, to make what is a major announcement. We’re announcing a major crackdown on organised crime on the waterfront.
This is the result of the combined work of the Australian Federal Police, the Australian Crime Commission, Customs and Border Protection, as well as New South Wales Police and the New South Wales Crime Commission over the course of the last two years.
We’ve been held up from making this announcement at the request of the Victorian Supreme Court, because of a major trial that’s been held there over the last three months. The trial involved the largest seizure of ecstasy ever in the world.
I in fact received a phone call from the Supreme Court judge involved in the trial asking us to hold back making this announcement until the trial had concluded. If we hadn’t done that, the risk would be that the trial would have been aborted.
The jury handed down their verdict yesterday. Four men were convicted – were found guilty and that allows me today to make this announcement.
Before I do, can I also thank The Sydney Morning Herald and thank The Age who, like myself, have waited patiently for this verdict to be handed down. That allows us to make this announcement today.
First, a few details on Task Force Polaris. Polaris is a joint State and Commonwealth taskforce set up to investigate organised crime on the waterfront in Sydney. It was established two years ago. It’s got 49 investigators from the Federal Police, from the Crime Commission, from Customs, but also from the New South Wales Police and the New South Wales Crime Commission and in my view, this is the future of law enforcement.
State and Federal law enforcement agencies working together with real teeth, real powers, coercive powers of the two crime commissions and it’s been very successful. Over the last two years, they’ve made 16 arrests and they’ve seized more than 12 tonnes worth of illegal drugs and precursor chemicals.
It’s found serious organised crime on the waterfront, but also into the private sector supply chain and it’s given me advice on what is necessary to cut it out. Today, I’m announcing 11 major reforms to make it harder for organised criminals to target and infiltrate the waterfront and the private sector supply chain.
The most important of them is this – we’ll give law enforcement the power to revoke someone’s licence to work on the waterfront, if we’ve got compelling criminal intelligence that they’re involved in organised crime. This is a serious reform and I expect that it will be controversial, but it’s necessary. It will affect very few workers, but its impact on security on the waterfront will be enormous.
Now, the tentacles of organised crime don’t just stretch on to the dock, they stretch beyond the dock to the private sector supply chain – the freight forwarders, the customs brokers, the under bond handlers. And so, as part of this package, I’m also giving police more powers to tackle organised crime as they try to target, infiltrate and exploit the people who work in these companies.
This will include making it a criminal offence to provide information from the cargo management system to aid a criminal organisation. It also means limiting access to the integrated cargo management system to people who need to know what is on that system.
The tentacles of organised crime don’t just stretch to the dock though and they don’t just stretch to the private sector companies – they stretch beyond Sydney. They stretch to Melbourne. They stretch to Brisbane. They stretch right across the country.
We’ve set up a task force like Polaris in WA. We’re also now going to extend it to Melbourne and we’re going to extend it to Brisbane. In Melbourne, it will be known as Operation Trident and it will begin on 1 July. In Brisbane, we’ve had preliminary discussions with Queensland Police and it will be established and begin operations early next year.
The point I want to make is this. We’ve got a serious challenge and these are serious reforms. We’ve got serious organised criminals targeting and trying to exploit the waterfront and this is a major crackdown on organised crime on the waterfront.
99 per cent of people who work on the waterfront and work in the private sector supply chain are good, honest, hard working people but there are a few crooks and this will help to weed them out.
Organised crime is a cancer. It hurts the economy. It costs the economy more than $15 billion a year. It hurts the people that end up using the drugs. We see the impact of it on the streets of Western Sydney right now with bikie gangs fighting over drugs and fighting over turf. That’s why I say organised crime is a cancer and this will give police the power to cut it out.
Now, I’m happy to take questions and I’m sure the commissioner would be happy to take some questions, as well.
QUESTION: Minister, just – the power to revoke or refuse the Maritime ID card, you’re saying based on compelling intelligence. What does that mean? The person’s not necessarily convicted or charged with a crime.
JASON CLARE: These are serious reforms. I think they’ll be controversial. These have been recommended to us by the team, as part of Task Force Polaris.
It means that if law enforcement has compelling intelligence, information that tells them that people working on the wharf or people that are working in the integrated – working as part of the private supply chain are working with organised criminals, are connected with attempts to import drugs into the country, then their right to work on the waterfront will be removed.
QUESTION: But if you have compelling evidence like that, why wouldn’t just arrest and charge them? Why do you need powers like this?
JASON CLARE: I’ll ask the Commissioner to talk about this in a bit of detail, as well. At the moment, you can only have your right to work on the waterfront removed if you’ve been convicted of a serious criminal offence.
That’s why I say these are tough and controversial powers, but they’re necessary powers. It will only affect a small numbers of workers on the waterfront, but the impact that it will have on security will be enormous.
Sometimes police have intelligence that tells them that people are up to no good, but they don’t have information or significant information yet to make an arrest. Well, in my book, it’s not good enough to hang around and wait to get that information. If someone is importing heroin into the country you’ve got to get them off the dock and this will help us do it.
Commissioner, would you like to say a few words?
TONY NEGUS: Yeah. Thanks, Minister.
Look, they’re important questions to be asked. Often police don’t have enough evidence to present the matter to a court to a sufficient standard and we all know that courts in Australia need evidence beyond reasonable doubt to be able to convict someone appropriately and that can take some time.
As the Minister said, where there is compelling criminal intelligence, we will look to remove that person’s access to the docks. There is an appeal mechanism, which will be worked through, in this regard, so the fairness aspect of this hasn’t been overlooked and people will have an opportunity to contest that, if they wish to do so.
Again, the Government will look at how that’s to be and work with industry and the unions to make sure that people aren’t treated unfairly in this regard. But it is a significant reform. It is something that will allow us to remove people from that environment quickly, rather than waiting two years for, perhaps, a court trial to actually be completed, if we see that necessary.
Where there is compelling intelligence to a level that amounts to evidence, certainly the police will continue to do what we do and that is, take those people before the courts appropriately and look to have those matters tested in the courts.
But this would be used sparingly, I’d suggest, in those environments where there’s just not sufficient evidence to convict somebody, but they are playing a role in the facilitation of drugs or other cargo into this country illegally.
QUESTION: These reforms really seem to be targeting the people who are working on the dock, but what about the procedures that happen? Are we going to see more containers searched or are we still relying a lot on the onus of the paperwork?
TONY NEGUS: Yeah. Look, the Minister outlined a range of reforms. I’m sure there’s more he could probably talk about in that regard.
One of the good things about Task Force Polaris is that it’s made some significant arrests. It’s seized a lot of narcotics and illicit substances coming through the border, but it’s provided an opportunity to have a look inside the environment. They’ve identified a range of vulnerabilities, which don’t just – don’t just impact upon the crimes that are being investigated, but impact upon the systems.
The systems, the management systems, the electronic systems that are used by Customs, the access to those systems by individuals across the country, they’re the sort of vulnerabilities that we’ll now clamp down on. So the systems themselves are showing some weaknesses and they’re the holes that are going to be closed by these reforms.
QUESTION: How widespread is the corruption within the – within Customs and, perhaps, members of the Maritime Union?
TONY NEGUS: Look, we see that Customs officers are involved and have been approached to try and be compromised in those environments. They hold trusted positions. It’s not appropriate for me to talk about any individual cases.
But suffice to say, there are incidences where people in trusted positions have been approached by organised crime and tried to be compromised. We will continue to root those people out and get rid of them off the wharfs.
QUESTION: And are these…
JASON CLARE: Can I just add to that? Can I just add to that by saying that, you know, what this report shows is you’ve seen organised criminals target the waterfront, they’ve targeted the private sector supply chain and they’ve targeted law enforcement as well.
Now we respond to this by giving police the powers to rip people out if we think that they’re involved in organised crime, by tightening up the integrated cargo system that criminals use to try and find out where containers are moving or where cargo is moving.
But the harder part, the deeper part to this is also changing the culture of what happens inside the stevedoring companies and inside these private sector organisations – this look the other way approach, to not focus on what is really happening at the wharf.
And so one of the changes that I’m making is making it mandatory for these companies as part of their licences to operate, whether it’s on the wharf or whether it’s as part of the cargo system, to report instances where they see people misbehaving, where they see people operating in a way that suggests they’re helping organised crime get drugs into the country.
On Customs itself, let’s not be naive about this. As the Commissioner said, we’ve always known that criminals are going to target police, that they’re going to target law enforcement agencies state and federal and they’ll target Customs officers because of the job that they have. Their integrity needs to be as high as it possibly can be because we know that this is true.
That’s why I’ve announced a number of things. A couple of months ago you’ll know I announced that we’re going to introduce targeted integrity testing for Customs officers, for Federal Police and for the Australian Crime Commission and on top of that I’ve announced that I’m going to introduce drug and alcohol testing for Customs officers.
I’m going to give the head of Customs the power to summarily dismiss people that they believe are acting corruptly, as well as introduce mandatory reporting, the sort of mandatory reporting that I want to see on the dock and in the private sector companies, also inside Customs.
They’re the sorts of powers that the Commissioner of the Federal Police already has and they’re the sorts of powers that are needed inside Customs as well.
QUESTION: If somebody has their identification card revoked and they’re then found to have been innocent, there’s a chance they may have lost their job in the interim, you know, they could have been struggling at that stage to provide for their families.
Would there be compensation in that kind of a case or what would you do to look after that worker and their family?
JASON CLARE: I’ll repeat what I said. I make no apologies for the fact that this is tough. I know it’s going to be controversial, but what’s more important? I’ll tell you what’s most important – is that we don’t have organised criminals bringing bucket loads of heroin and cocaine into the country. This will help to stop it.
Now appeal rights are important, they’re very important. Once the Federal Police and the Crime Commission briefed me on this and told me what we needed to do, the first thing I said is well let’s do it.
The second thing I did was pick up the phone and talk to all of the key stakeholders. So I’ve spoken to the Maritime Union and said we need to do this and it shows the maturity of their approach, that they said okay we’ll support the work that law enforcement is going to do, but we want an appeal right.
And I said well I think you should have an appeal right and we’ll work together with all of the key stakeholders here – the stevedores, the private sector companies, the unions, law enforcement agencies, put together an industry forum to work through the details of what this legislation will look like and how it should operate.
QUESTION: Minister how many people have those cards, those Maritime Security Identification Cards and how many might see them revoked? Are they all under scrutiny now with these new reforms?
JASON CLARE: Yeah, everybody that works on the dock has a Maritime Security Identification Card. Everyone who works at the airport has an equivalent one for aviation.
The advice that I’ve got from the Australian Crime Commission is that these powers will affect very few workers, but the impact on security will be enormous.
QUESTION: Minister in terms of going back to that – a case like that, if you do have someone who is unfairly targeted, I mean, that’s going to have a view of costs and real implications for them and their family. How are they going to be provided for and compensated if it’s found that they didn’t really…
JASON CLARE: Well take it one step back. What’s important here is that the intelligence that we use to make this decision is compelling and that’s why the standard of intelligence required will be very important.
I’ve used the words compelling criminal intelligence. It’s important that when law enforcement make this decision that they do it based on very strong intelligence and that will be the model that we’ll use as we work with industry to develop this legislation.
QUESTION: Minister who will make the decision to ban someone from the waterfront?
JASON CLARE: Well this is again something that we’ll work through with the legislation. One model could be that these decisions are made by the Australian Crime Commission but I’m not making a definitive decision until I’ve sat down with law enforcement and I’ve sat down with industry to finalise the model.
QUESTION: It won’t be a court?
JASON CLARE: No these decisions to revoke a licence are not decisions that courts make. They’re administrative decisions. They would be made based on the advice of law enforcement. The organisation that would do it is something that I’ll finalise in discussion with industry.
QUESTION: You still haven’t answered that question that if somebody’s unfairly targeted and suffers as a result, how would they be compensated?
JASON CLARE: Well again these are the things that we’ll look at when we sit down with industry to make sure that we get the legislation right.
So I’m not going to pre-empt that question by answering it now. I’m going to sit down with industry, make sure that we’ve got the standard of intelligence right, make sure that we’ve got the appeal system required right and I’ll look at those issues as well as part of that.
QUESTION: Does that legislation…
JASON CLARE: Sure one question here and then we’ll pop over there.
QUESTION: Does that legislation need to be passed or finalised before the strike force in [indistinct] can get started…?
JASON CLARE: No it doesn’t. No it doesn’t. Two separate things. There’ll be a package of reforms that I’ll introduce into the Parliament in the second half of this year and there’ll also be the taskforces that we’ll establish in Brisbane and in Melbourne. The taskforce in Melbourne will begin on 1 July.
QUESTION: How are you going to measure the success of this program once it’s put in?
JASON CLARE: Well I take my advice from police. I take my advice from the Federal Police. They tell me that they need these powers to rip the cancer that exists in the system at the moment out. Now if it means that we’ve got fewer crooks infiltrating the waterfront, that’s a success. If it means that we seize more drugs and stop more drugs getting into the country, then that’s a success.
QUESTION: How many containers are currently searched at the moment? I remember reading a figure and I apologise, I can’t remember the exact number. I think it was around one in five number.
JASON CLARE: At the moment we will search about 20 million parcels a year as well as over 100,000 containers a year.
We do an intelligence assessment of every package and every container that comes into the country and based on that intelligence assessment work out what are the containers that we need to target, what are the parcels that we need to target.
The advice – I’ll ask the Commissioner to talk to this as well because the advice I get from the Federal Police, from Customs and from the Crime Commission is that if you want to stop drugs getting into the country then intelligence is the key. Intelligence is the key and here’s why – 96 per cent of the drugs that we seize at the border are from intelligence that we get from local police or from police overseas.
So the more intelligence we get, the more drugs we seize and that’s what we use to drive the decisions about where we target the searches.
But I might – can I just ask the Commissioner to expand on it.
TONY NEGUS: Thanks Minister. I did want to make a couple of points about that.
We have direct evidence that Australia is being targeted by overseas criminal networks, whether it be Mexican drug cartels, whether it be Colombian cartels or just transnational crime across the board. So there’s no – there’s no contesting that. That’s a fact. That’s happening right now.
The reforms that we’re talking about today will actually help to target – harden Australia and make it much more difficult for these cartels and these transnational crime groups to look at Australia as an easy target.
Now what’s happening here is because of our relatively strong economy, our high Australian dollar, we are an attractive target. Also Australia has a – its seems, a thirst for the types of drugs that are being pushed through the borders and that is things like heroin, things like cocaine and precursor chemicals.
You would have seen only a few weeks ago we announced the Australian Illicit Drug Data Report. In that last reporting period there were 703 clandestine laboratories which were identified throughout that year. That’s a record for Australia.
Now the precursor chemicals required to make things like methyl-amphetamine and ice have got to come through the border because Australia has very strong precursor controls of our own, so they have to be smuggled through here.
So these reforms will harden the borders, harden the target and make sure that these particular overseas crime groups aren’t looking at us as somewhere that they can get their narcotics through or get the materials through to make lots of money based on the misery of the young people of this country.
QUESTION: So what will be the quotas of how many packages or how many shipping containers are searched?
TONY NEGUS: Look that’s really a matter for Customs to answer. I know that even in estimates yesterday that question was asked of them so it’d be on the public record for you to look back on.
But Customs continue to focus their intelligence – they’re seizure rates are increasing. They are looking at using intelligence, as the Minister said, to focus their resources to where they get best bang for their buck and we’re supporting them by providing that joined up approach the Minister talked about.
This is very much a, you know, proof of concept project – Project Polaris. We’re rolling that out into other major cities now across the country because it works and because we have seen those vulnerabilities and we have had significant operational success in looking to close those areas down.
JASON CLARE: Can I just add to that as well. The last four years, Customs have gone from a mass X-ray model to an intelligence and targeting model and in the last four years, through air cargo, they’ve doubled the amount of drugs that they’ve seized.
And what that says is that if you use criminal intelligence to target the right packages and target the right containers, then you seize more drugs. We’ve seized double the amount of drugs in air cargo by going to an intelligence driven model that shows that’s the right way to do it.
QUESTION: Commissioner, what’s gone so terribly wrong that Australia is seen as an easy target? There are obvious answers like our borders; you know being a big island. But what’s gone so terribly wrong and why have you been so hamstrung as the head of the Federal Police that we’re seen as an easy target?
TONY NEGUS: Look, I don’t think things have gone terribly wrong but this is being experienced by most Western countries in the world. Drugs are a very profitable business and we’ve seen that and we’ve seen some of the major seizures that have been made just recently.
The court case, the Minister referred to yesterday 4.4 tonnes of MDMA tablets were sent to this country to satisfy a market in this country. Now again, those are significant seizures on a world stage. When I talk to my colleagues in the DEA or the FBI or any other country around the world, these are significant seizures by world standards.
So, look Australia is being targeted. Look, we’re working really hard to make Australia – make sure Australia is not an easy target but we are being targeted because as I said of our relative wealth as a country and we’re being targeted because of our relatively high Australian dollar.
The profit margins for these countries – sorry for these cartels are significantly high. I wouldn’t say we’re an easy target but we’re an attractive target in that regard and what’s up to us to do is to actually try and make it much more difficult and increase the risk to these groups, that their products will be intercepted at the border coming through.
QUESTION: And how significant has that culture of turning a blind eye been on our waterfront?
TONY NEGUS: Well, we have seen elements of that. And this, the last two years of Project Polaris have seen that culture that needs to be turned around and these reforms, we hope will actually help to do that.
QUESTION: Do you have proof of that culture or is it just anecdotal evidence?
TONY NEGUS: No, we’ve seen that. The investigations we run, we’ve made significant arrests and we’ve – over 77 charges been made out of this task force alone. So we have seen the people have turned a blind eye. People are aware of what’s actually happening and they haven’t report that as they probably should have.
So it’s a matter of bringing people into the loop on this and making them part of the solution rather than just being, as I said looking the other way. And culture is an important thing but it takes some time to turn around and that’s why these reforms are important.
QUESTION: And those 77 charges; have we had any convictions yet?
TONY NEGUS: No, they’re all still going through the courts as far as I know. But there’s been, as I said significant charges. There’s been – our one seizure of 11 tonnes of precursor chemicals coming into this country to make methyl-amphetamine or ice. These are significant seizures. There’s also a range of things about tobacco.
Tobacco is being smuggled in to this country again to avoid excise. Now, hundreds of tonnes of this stuff that’s coming through. So, people are aware that work on the docks and work in the broader areas that the Minister’s talked about, the stevedores, the freight forwarding companies of things that aren’t right. And what we want them to do is come forward and be part of the solution rather than actually looking the other way.
QUESTION: You obviously already have people in mind come 1 July. Should people be worried?
TONY NEGUS: Look, they’re working on the docks and they’re doing the wrong thing, yes, they should be worried. And we’ll be doing everything we can to make sure these people are brought before the courts and we do make, as I said, Australia a harder target for these illicit groups – these trans-national groups who are trying to get things through our borders.
QUESTION: Sorry gentlemen, I came in late. You might have answered this. Please excuse me from repeating the issues but for you – you’re saying there’s a lot of corruption down here and endemic corruption on the wharves. What proof, to follow up that question, have you had? How many charges have you laid? How many people are in prison on corruption charges right now?
TONY NEGUS: Well, as I said this task force started in essence a couple of years ago in concept but about 12 months ago really in practice. There’s been 16 arrests made. There’s 77 charges have been laid. We don’t have people in prison for corruption but we do have a range of investigations underway which I’m not at liberty to talk about; which you’ll see envelop – sorry, unfold over the next, really the next few months.
QUESTION: Minister Clare, are you confident of banning people from working at ports based on criminal intelligence not criminal conviction?
JASON CLARE: Well, I made the point before. My focus is on stopping criminals from importing drugs into the country. The security of our waterfront here is critical.
As the Commissioner said, if you want get heroin or you want to get cocaine or you want to get ecstasy into the country then you do it through the border. And we’ve got to stop it at the border; otherwise, you see the consequences of that on the streets of Sydney, you see it on the streets of Melbourne, you see it on the streets of Queensland.
Now, when police come to me and they say we need these powers if we’re going to get crooks off the wharf then I say well, I’ll give you those powers. This is the first thing that I was briefed on when I became the Minister about five or so months ago. We’ve been working on it ever since.
As I said, we’ve had to wait until this trial concluded before we could make this announcement but if police tell me they need these powers in order to crack down on organised crime on the waterfront, then I’m going to give it to them.
QUESTION: So what does that mean for innocent until proven guilty? If people haven’t even been convicted yet?
JASON CLARE: What I’ve said is this is tough. This is controversial. I’m sure it will be controversial but it necessary to ensure that our ports, ensure that the waterfront isn’t a place where people can bring in heroin, can bring in cocaine, can bring in precursor chemicals to make drugs and all the consequences that that reaps for Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.
QUESTION: Your Government has caught Craig Thomson to be given a presumption of innocence. Why aren’t normal workers in Sydney and other cities being given the same presumption of innocence in this case?
JASON CLARE: Well, these people aren’t being sent to jail. These people are working on the wharf, and as I said – 99 per cent of people who work in the private sector supply chain and the waterfront are good honest hardworking people. But no one wants to work with a crook.
No one wants to work with somebody who is helping drugs get into the country. That hurts us all. That hurts us all and if we think that there is somebody that’s bringing drugs into the country, no one wants them working on the wharf.
QUESTION: Speaking of Craig Thomson, as an MP you’ve seen the situation against him unfold over several years and in recent months. Are you concerned about his mental health?
JASON CLARE: Well, I think all of us should care about each other. Everyone should be concerned that people are doing okay. Craig Thomson has come under a lot of pressure and I think it’s incumbent upon all politicians to think about the human being.
QUESTION: Speaking about the amount of dollars – you’ve recently had your budget slashed to quite record lows. Are you – is it a simple case that criminals are spending a lot more money getting the drugs in than you can spend keeping them out?
JASON CLARE: Well, first off I won’t agree that, as you say cutting the budget to record lows; that’s not correct. There’s more money in the Budget for the Federal Police, for the Crime Commission, for Customs than there was four years ago. So that’s not correct and there’s nothing more important than making sure that law enforcement have got the powers and the resources they need to do their job.
What law enforcement tells me is that intelligence is what catches crooks. Intelligence is what seizes drugs. So we’ve driven that agenda by establishing intelligence targeting teams in Customs to help them to do that. In the Budget, you’ll see money for the Federal Police to build a new forensics facility to do all the sorts of DNA testing and firearms testing that are necessary to catch crooks, seize drugs, seize weapons and so forth. So that’s our focus.
Crooks will always be there. There’ll always be criminals. There’ll always be criminals who are going to try and import drugs into the country. But what I’ve made very clear is if you’re interested in importing drugs into the country then we’ll catch you and we’ll put you behind bars and these new laws will help us to do that.
QUESTION: Minister, if 100,000 containers are searched each year, is that one-tenth, one-fifth, you know, one per cent of all containers? What is it? I know you’re saying intelligence is driving the measures…
JASON CLARE: Yes, it is.
QUESTION: But how many – you know, what percentage of containers are actually searched or X-rayed?
JASON CLARE: Well, all of them are assessed. All of them are the subject of an intelligence assessment. Based on that, they select over a hundred thousand containers that need to be X-rayed by the X-ray facility and then based on that, they pull apart containers that they think an even higher level of inspection is required. That’s the approach…
QUESTION: So roughly what percentage are inspected?
JASON CLARE: I don’t have that figure off the top of my head.
QUESTION: Any idea?
JASON CLARE: Well, I don’t have figure off the top of my head but what I can say is that about 10 years ago – X-ray wasn’t done at all. It’s a new process. It was rolled out around about 10 years ago and since then X-raying has occurred. It’s been an important part of the process but it’s not the only part of the process.
It’s very hard – it’s very hard to find drugs or find prohibited material through an X-ray alone. And the advice from Customs, the advice from police is that you need the intel behind it to know what you’re looking for. And that’s why it’s a combined approach.
Can I also just make one other point, and that is if you’re going to tackle organised crime, you’ve got to do it in a number of different ways. You’ve got to tackle it at the border and that’s what this is about. You’ve got to tackle it on the streets where you see bikie gangs fighting with each other on the streets of Western Sydney and I’m going to bring forward a major package with the Police Ministers across the country to tackle the illegal gun market when the Police Ministers meet next month.
But if you’re serious about tackling organised crime, you’ve got to do one more thing and that is you’ve got to take their money, you’ve got to take their assets. These big time criminals are more afraid of losing their money than they are of going to jail. And so I’ve written to the states and I’ve written to the territories asking them to give me the constitutional power to introduce national unexplained wealth laws.
That’ll mean that if organised criminals are moving assets from state to state, we’ll have more powers to seize their assets. It’ll reverse the onus of proof. If we believe that these organised criminals have been up to no good, they need to tell us that these assets have been acquired legitimately otherwise we take their mansion, we take the Ferraris, we take the yachts, we can seize their assets.
And this is the third part of the puzzle. It’s what you do at the border, it’s what you do on the streets but it’s also by seizing their assets and national unexplained wealth laws are an important part of this as well. Thanks very much.
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